AthaHQ

after x Turn and x River you will prob. called down very light if you x/R. Which valuehands would you play this way? I guess none?

Ah, and dont trust in stats so early... BTN could be a standart reg and 77 hands for BB is way to early to say anything about him, even Vpip and Pfr getting serious fast.

HU it is an easy call OTF.

I would raise small vs BB 3way (about 2,1x or something for value and information). When you do this you deny BTNs possible Equity because he cant call you with his onepairs or draws without making a mistake which is a good result. Also i wouldnt feel great to play a vulnerable Overpair which fears every Q and every 7 and maybe a 5 or a T in the sandwich. (fearing the equity shift)
You also see where you rly stand. BB wouldnt 3Bet vs your raise with Jx here i guess, you let him put more money in the pot with his strong to medium toppairs and draws which he prob. wouldnt reraise too. If BTN flats or reraises vs your raise the Hand is over for you. If the BB 3Bets your raise the hand is also over on NL5, expecting him not to play his draws hyper aggressive. OTT he prob. checks and wouldnt donk a set again. So you can bet on any Turn <5 or on >K or on a 6 or 8 OTT for value and take prob. free SD OTR. I think this way we could extract most value when we hold the best hand and we also deny equity and dont overplay our Hand. (it´s should be about the same amount or a bit less then going for 3 streets)

On a Q or 7 OTT i would prob. x behind if BB checks and fold vs a donk.
If he bets river when turn went x/x then i would look at the exact runout and potodds and decide. If he x again OTR i dont know if we could bet thinly for value, but ingame i would prob. do so targeting Jx, but not sure about it.

But thx for the discussion and your CREV.

mh, highly depends on the player and his tilt potential. This wouldnt be a huge factor for me, but yes, some players might tilt after herocalling so much BB.
But i would mainly fold because i think losing 11,5BB w ith TPTK (even we fold the best hand sometimes) is better then losing 106,5BB most of the time with "top of our range" argument, which some players use to justify bad calls. (not saying u do so)

def. not so easy then i tought :)
(would still fold instead of herocalling) :D

As i said, from my long NL10 experience i think i lost a lot of money by calling of 95BB Turnjams with TPTK on boards like this.
As is said, ofc. it makes no sence to play nuts like this. But that doesent mean that people dont do so.
Would also make no sence to play Kx or a flushdraw (or any hand) like this. And i think most rec. players would slow down with babyflushdraws and combodraws when the board pairs, because some of them also know that non believing on paired boards is very common or they may fearing the boat.

I rly appreciate you CREV, but to discount nutcombos because of your assumption is bold in my eyes, just because you cant look in the head of an unknown. So your whole call is based on your assumption. So this call for 95BB is in theory maybe marginal +EV, but at the tabels i think you will lose most of the time. (thats why i called it theoretical BS)

"In general a nitty fold is always the smaller mistake then a loose call on NL10.
I can tell you this 100% sure, because i am winning on this limit"

This is just garbage. You take a very complex game and break it down with a blanket statement and then instead of posting math or something valuable to prove your point you just use the reasoning "because I am a winning player at 10nl".

Yes, it is :)
Sorry, this was a bit arrogant.
Dont want to say that i am a better player then you, i think i am not. But i have a good feeling for what fishes do on NL10 what you may dont have because you play higher limits where other (more serious) lines are the daily bread.
Also your argument that he needs no protection is clear. But we cant look in his head. We dont know if he is just playing his super strong nuttish hand.
I could also argument like this: He has stonecold nuts and want to look like that he has a draw to lvl us in the call...
What i want to say with this is, that we can make this or that assumption and then we have both clear arguments just by meaning that we can read his soul, which we obv. cant do.

To make my decision process clearer without math. (because i think we should fold exploitavly)

Vs unknown i would still fold and take a note.
If i had decent sample i would look at his MP open and his PFR. (is he limping?)
Then i would look at his aggression and my notes. If his flop aggression is more then 40 and his Turn aggression also more then 40 and i saw him spewing money before i would def. call here with AKo and also KQ and may some other hands.

But vs. unknown i just let it go, even when i give up relativly marginal EV in theory. In my eyes you dont make the money on this limit with kinda "herocalls" like this.

Would also be nice if OP could give us his MP openfrequencie and his flop / turn aggression stats to make better assumptions. Please do so OP, rly intresting spot now (at least for me after Raraulbl made the CREV)

I send you my skype via pm... cant see the crev because it is so small and i am blind ;) , but i am rly intrestet in.

Why would you discount it? Because you think normal players doesent play there nuts this way? Explanation pls

@Raraulbl: ok, which hands do you want to give him in his range that our call becomes BE?
And i said i would fold this vs unknown, not in general. If i see that he does strange stuff like this often or that i marked him as a spewtard my callingrange widens and then AKo is ofc a call.
In general a nitty fold is always the smaller mistake then a loose call on NL10.
I can tell you this 100% sure, because i am winning on this limit with a decent WR on huge sample. And yes, passiv fishs play nuttish hands like this often, ofc it is retarted, but nice from him that he gives us the chance to find the emergency break, so we should do so and fold.
Where did i said that i would fold 98 vs a potbet otf??? wtf? I said we should be cautios when someone potcbets on this limit and be extremly carefull.
That i prob. fold to much in this spot is theoretical BS. No need to be unexploitable when i lose a stack for this >80% of the time, only to say, "yeaha, at least he cant exploit me"
A player who takes this line in SRP prob. doesent know what exploiting means.
Instead we should exploit... by folding.

Would you please tell me which hand for value would you play like this? I guess you wont find a single hand for it. So i dont like this bluff, super spewy in my eyes, you also dont block something. Pretty bad bluff.

lol, on NL10 this is an easy fold OTT in my eyes with TPTK vs unknown...
flop looks already scary with his potbet. Ofc he can hold combodraws, but i think we look almost always to AA // KK // 88 // 77 // 8x... Yes, he is repping thinly... but i dont want to find out that he is retartet for 100BB.
Dont want to do the math, but i guess you need to win here >40% for BE call, and i guess most of the time you lose or split...

If we have a read that he is a spewtard we could prob. call... but still close then.

Edit: that we hold the Ah makes a call also way more less attractive...

wat taaazz said. X behind and bet two times big or 3 streets 1/3 is the way to go... my 2 cents

Foooold pre... you dont play well enough post for things like this. Why do you always bring yourself in troublespots over and over? You are not Phil Ivey.
Start playing solid and dont spew and post BS Hands like this. You will never be winningplayer if you cant control yourself. Just quit Poker, it seems so hopeless or at least see it as a hobby, but going pro is just illusional and self deception (like you said in your mental post).
What did i telled you in hours of skype? You dont change anything.Start playing solid and dont spew and post BS Hands like this. I gave you a chart with which you could implemet a solid ABC game. You say... "no, this is so boring... i am exploitable when i play ranges like this and other BS" (again, nobody is able to exploit you on these stakes... again... do you want to be a gambler fish or do you want to make a little small income with poker one day?? Decide and then change something if you want to make money with poker)
You are a typical micro grinder who consumed to much midstakes stuff. This is like a sickness. You want to build a roof without a cellar and house under it. Please start building your cellar or quit.
Instead you want to gamble. You have no clue what to do pre and post so WHY WHY WHY??? 3Bet T3o vs unknown BvB??? Fancy play syndrom?!

Then you always think about the wrong things... When i asked you a few days ago what 35% CO open // 65% flop cbet in SRP OOP // 38% flop aggression says about a reg you thougt 3 minutes and then told me "that he doesent defend his x/c range".
I mean ofc. this could be right but wtf? There are about 5 more important infos in this stats, but you think about balance bullshit. You want to think advanced, but you have NO fundament. Instead of this you open crazy wide and you are crazy aggro.

FT3B 1/1 wow! BIG SAMPLE!!! HELLO??? SAMPLE!!! So what is your assumption now? That you can start 3Betting any two? Before T3o becomes a 3Bet we need to know his SB OPR. You dont know how wide he opens. May he is just a nit and opens 20% from SB??? Dont know exactly, but before T3 becomes a Bluff 3Bet he needs to minopen >65% i guess. You have better hands for Bluff 3Betting an unknown. And when he is unknown then "tight is right". No need to defend with Hands like this, esp. when you always struggle post. I mean, you see what happens... you make a weak two pair and then you feel in trouble because you like overplaying your hands and lose your stack and then you are wasting our time because you cant control yourself pre.

I dont say anything to postflop because for you it is just a fold pre. So annoying to read posts like this, at least for me, because i already gave you hours of free coaching in skype and you dont change anything.

x/F Turn dude

yes! post is also kinda spew... passiv spew.

good that you start beeing honest with yourself... remember some days ago when we skyped first time you told me that you dont have mental problems...

I stand to my point that most micro regs arent skilled enough to play small suitet Aces OOP in 3BP and i also think that on midstakes it is -EV because edeges are smaller. Hard to realize your equity, hard to get value when you hit, so much room to do mistakes when your postflop play isnt great (domination!) and when you make your calls ratet by equity you have to call also A6s-ATs in theory (i think high equity hands are way better then hands with playability OOP). If you do you are calling to much vs 3bets and make room to get exploitet.
You are drawing thin or playing guessing game postflop if you call OOP and rarely see a showdown vs mostly aggressive opponents which will often barrel you from the best hand playing the guessing game with you. As i always say and many better players then me said before... guessing game always sucks in poker.
So it´s just always a fold or 4 bet pre.

nh, wp

didnt looked enough... vs rndm non full stack a call should be ok as played.

Dont call suited Babyaces OOP... you almost always lose a big pot or win a small one. Because you cant rly have a Bluff OTR you have to make it smaller like taaazz said.
And altough it is a 3Betpot he never ever has a Bluff here. Dont know if he would shove worse flushes for value vs your sizing (dont think so), so this is almost always a boat.

ye, ofc, sry, my mind was somewhere... edit it

What does the yellow underlined cards mean?

also made a mistake :D tought it was BBvsBTN ;) ATs still a flat vs most CO , depending on his open frequence ;)

First of all your 3Betrange isnt constructet good at all as a BB 3Bettor. Most people 3Bet polarized here, there is no point in 3Betting all this suited broadways and 55-99, cause there equity and there realisationfaktor is too good. Because of that they work much better as flats. Dont want to share th e math here, but believe me, it is true, PM me if you want to know the formulas.

Ofc. you dont need to cbet all your overcards. As a general theoretical guideline u can say: Our flop betting range in 3Betpots should include around 3 bluff for every 2 strong valuebets.

To make your life more easy.
-Look at your Hand (against which hands do you want to valuebet? do you have backdoor draws which you can barrel OTT and can they may improve to a nuttish hand?).
-Look at the Board (is it wet? is it dry? do you think your opponets range hit good on it?)
-Look at villain´s fold to cbet stat IP in 3BP OTF // OTT and his went to SD! (does he fold to much//less)

In this example i like a x/F even the Board is so dry. Hands like AQ and maybe AJ will float you a lot (then you are nearly drawing dead), on these stakes many players would also flat TT-QQ vs your 3Bet i think, if so, you only have 3 overs which are live. You also dont have any real backdoor draws (you only can improve to a gutter, which is to thin to barrel) so you played it well. (except that ATs is always a flat vs a BTN open) And ofc he can have all the sets (9 combos) cause many players call every pocketpair in these spot because of positional advantage and he can have 4x 87s. Also some 9x are may in his range (T9s//98s//J9s) So there is no point in cbetting cause you wont get many folds with a single cbet and there arent any good Turns you can continue cbetting without spewing money.

And consider to 3Bet polarized from the BB (as i sayed, pm me if you need help in rangeconstruction), depolarized 3Betranges working much better from the SB: (altough there are also people who 3Bet polarized from the SB)

Just call, you only need to be good 25% of the time and take note if it was a nuttish hand or a bluff. Wouldnt think to much here, if he has it NH.

^
thx m8, rly appreciated the diskussion with you :)
Feel free to post a hand or a topic and i will try my best to give usefull thoughts. ;>

EDIT: sorry, he had two pair 9h7h, not the 96 which i wrote above.

So his line was for pure value and not a wrong Bluff.

sorry m8, he had the 9h7h. Seems like and obvious betsizing tell OTF.